I was recently informed of a wonderful interview of Bill McMillan conducted by Sean Gallagher in his book "Wild Steelhead:  The Lure and Lore of a Pacific Northwest Icon".   (Now I need to somehow round up $150 for this epic 2 volume book!) 
Tom Pero of Wild River Press and author Sean Gallagher 
generously allowed WSC to release Bill's interview for educational 
purposes on the WSC website.  Sean does a great job of introducing Bill and describing 
Bill's character and background.  Of course Sean's characterization of 
Bill is totally consistent with my own experience and communications 
with Bill.  Follow along in the interview as Bill reveals facts about 
wild steelhead that run counter to what was/is commonly believed by 
fishery managers and the fishing public as well.  Bill discusses the 
importance of the early return segment in the Puget Sound winter 
steelhead runs and how they have been driven towards extinction by 
intensive hatchery management and harvest.  Bill also discusses that how
 historically, the early return segment was more abundant than the late 
returns, but there has been no protection for the remaining remnants  of
 the early returns and how this management strategy is backwards 
considering the relative health of the late returns in some Puget Sound 
rivers.
Bill has discussed these findings with me over 
the past few years and I have reflected on being thankful that in 
Oregon, we do have some rivers, such as the Umpqua/North Umpqua system 
that have had no significant hatchery winter steelhead histories and the
 wild returns have remained relatively stable.  ODFW has also wisely 
left more and more watersheds to wild recovery with cessation of 
hatchery plants.  Despite the ongoing communications I've had with Bill 
on these issues, I still found his interview enlightening and I believe 
you will find it such as well.
Our wild steelhead are 
such a valuable resource and I am ever grateful to Bill and others who 
have worked hard to reveal truths on what needs to be done to allow them
 to recover.
------------------------------------------------ 
Chapter Eight: Around the Campfire with Bill McMillan

It
 is hard to pinpoint my first exposure to Bill McMillan. He was just 
someone you knew about. Maybe it was all those Salmon Trout Steelheader 
magazine articles he wrote during the 1970s. He certainly was an 
innovator in the steelhead fly-fishing world. But it was the 1982 
reprint of Greased Line Fishing for Salmon by Jock Scott (1935), 
retitled Greased Line Fishing for Salmon [and Steelhead] by Frank Amato 
Publications that stands out. Bill wrote the introduction. It was 
fascinating reading. Although the original had been published nearly 50 
years earlier, half a world away, Bill was instrumental in bridging the 
gap. He introduced us to the parallels in steelhead presentation. It 
instantly became one of the most important instructional manuals for the
 modern-day steelhead fly fisher. It is no wonder that when his book 
titled Dry Line Steelhead came out in 1987 my buddies and I rushed out 
to buy a copy and devoured it.

Sometime
 in the mid-1980s, I met Bill at an FFF Steelhead Committee meeting. By 
then his stature had changed; he had transformed himself from apostle of
 Arthur Wood to a preeminent—and immensely knowledgable—spokesman for 
the resource. I was taken aback by his soft-spoken demeanor. And 
something else: I remember his telling me that one of his good fishing 
companions was a gear angler. This man was not some stuffy elite, as I 
had wondered. He was a sensitive, contemplative, dedicated human being. 
The Common Man using his influence to make a difference in our world. I 
have nothing but high regard for Bill McMillan and his philosophy of 
resource stewardship. All of us in the steelhead community owe him a 
debt of gratitude, not only for his contributions as an innovative 
angler, but for his years of service as an advocate for the wild 
resource.
In 1954, young Bill’s father was a struggling tailor in the little 
town of Camas, Washington. To help make the family’s financial ends 
meet, once every two or three weeks, his mother and father loaded Bill 
and his brother into the car and drove across the Columbia River to 
downtown Portland, to the Meier & Frank department store’s Friday 
surprise sale. The youngsters made a beeline to the sporting goods, 
where Bill’s brother would pound the mitt of a Stan Musial baseball 
glove, and Bill would watch Audrey Joy tying flies. One day Bill 
wandered over to the book department, where he spied a prominently 
displayed new title. On the paper jacket was a fish leaping out of the 
water against a black background, under a headline that read, Steelhead 
to a Fly by Clark Van Fleet. He picked up a copy, sat down, and started 
reading.
Fast forward to the summer of 1961. Bill was 16. He had his driver’s 
license. Behind the wheel of an automatic, six-cylinder, four-door Ford 
nicknamed the Green Turd, he took corners on river roads fast and hard, 
challenged stock-car racers—and occasionally beating the older, 
experienced drivers. The mild-mannered, introspective teenager was a 
maniac behind the wheel. He raced over to the Wind River canyon twice 
and caught nothing. Then, on a third trip with a spin-fishing friend, 
near the Saint Martin Hot Spring outlet, Bill lifted his Wright & 
McGill tubular rod, came forward and threw the sticky silk fly line from
 an old pre-war stash across the current. The Red Ant—a Royal Coachman 
with no tail and a brown bucktail wing, tied on a stout No. 8 hook—hit 
the water. The line started moving and stopped; he was stuck. And then a
 silver-bodied fish came out of the water, again, and again, screaming 
upstream. Bill had made the trout fisherman’s mistake of holding coils 
of line in his hand. Sure enough—the knotted line went zip, zip zip 
through the guides and jammed in the second guide from the tip. Bill 
thought, oh, shit! The fish was leaping all over the place and Bill 
remembered the six-pound leader. The fish ran downstream, jumping in a 
big half-circle toward him. Bill slammed the butt of the rod into the 
water, waded out waist deep and managed to untangle the line. He finally
 got the knot undone and cranked in all the slack line. The fish was 
lying right at his feet and then went running off again. It had already 
jumped a dozen times. Bill begged his friend to go back to the car and 
get a net. His friend came back and tried to net the steelhead but the 
trout net was too small. He hit the taut line with the net and Bill 
thought, oh, my God! But by then the exhausted fish lay on its side. 
Bill dragged its head up on a rock in the middle of the river—a 24-inch,
 glistening wild male steelhead.
“It’s one of the few fish I’ve landed that I’ll never forget,” Bill said. “I remember every moment.”
Bill McMillan is one of a kind—a pivotal figure in the history of the
 Northwest’s rich steelhead legacy. Now our legacy is threatened. On a 
rainy November day, Tom Pero and I talked with Bill at his riverside 
home on the Skagit River, where he had lived since 1998, beside a 
glowing wood stove in his old rustic cabin where each day he wages a war
 of words for a regional return to steelhead abundance.
We’re sitting here on the banks of the Skagit River, once of the 
brightest stars in the steelhead constellation. This is where I first 
met a steelhead. It’s hard for me to see this star nearly extinguished.
Bill McMillan: There’s total closure now on the late
 steelhead catch-and-release fishery.  The state and the co-managing 
tribes make a preseason assessment on what they’re going to get back in 
the way of adult steelhead returns, based largely on smolt-trap 
information down in Mount Vernon and the number of smolts that went out 
two and three years before. It is a very rough estimate because the trap
 effectively samples only a narrow swath of a big, broad river. In fact,
 they know the smolt trap rarely captures juvenile sockeye at all, 
despite large numbers outmigrating. They know it’s not a very effective 
location for good smolt sampling, but it has the advantage of long-term 
comparative information. So predicted adult returns are based on what 
may not be very good outgoing smolt data and on what predicted ocean 
survival conditions might be based on recent years of steelhead ocean 
survival. Out of this alchemy of predictions they determine how to 
manage the fisheries for the coming winter season.
Do hatchery returns influence the prediction of wild returns?
McMillan: Yes, they then fine tune it for wild 
steelhead based on hatchery returns in early winter. It gives them a 
further idea of what the wild run may be—based on the same ocean 
conditions and the same year-class of the hatchery fish return. The 
managers base their fishery decisions on the early projection that 
includes returns to Marblemount hatchery and a test net fishery 
downstream by the tribal fishers. Given the more than decade-long trend 
of persistent decline, unless there is a significant indication of a 
shift from this pattern the river will likely continue to close to sport
 fishing early. Closure at the end of February or even end of January 
has become the norm. With few returns back to the hatchery and with the 
tribal test fishery poor, they just close it. The result in the winters 
of 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 have been closures at the end of January and 
in the previous year or two at the end of February. During the February 
closure years, the April catch-and-release fishery was retained from the
 bridge at Concrete on up to near Bacon Creek, and up the Sauk to 
Darrington. But with the January closures the April catch-and-release 
fishery has also been closed. Anyway, it has been a complex process of 
decisions, based on a kind of Ouija board of information. I have had no 
disagreement with the recent fishery outcome: closures. It has been 
apparent wild steelhead need protection.  What has led to this is my 
problem with the Skagit River and Puget Sound management.
 So
 the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife, with the Sauk-Suiattle 
and Swinomish tribes, have eliminated our “taking” of wild steelhead by 
minimal catch-and-release mortality by keeping us off the river in 
springtime. What else are they doing to bring this population back?
McMillan:
So
 the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife, with the Sauk-Suiattle 
and Swinomish tribes, have eliminated our “taking” of wild steelhead by 
minimal catch-and-release mortality by keeping us off the river in 
springtime. What else are they doing to bring this population back?
McMillan: Although there have been some voluntary 
diminishment of the tribal net fishery, I had anticipated and hoped that
 maybe the tribal fishers would quit entirely at the end of January in 
recent years along with the closure of the sport fishery. But they 
hadn’t as of the 2011-2012 winter. This year will be wait and see. 
Tribal fishing has continued to occur for steelhead at least into 
February; now and then you’ll see tribal fishers out there in early 
March. But it has definitely decreased from what it was. Keep in mind 
the tribal fishers have treaty rights that go beyond our general 
perception of regulations. To their credit, they have voluntarily cut 
back their fishing time. My complaint is that we’ve got everything 
ass-backwards regarding steelhead fishery management.
How so?
McMillan: The reason we are in this desperate need 
to recover runs of Puget Sound steelhead—and most of the rest of the 
State of Washington—is because we have nearly eliminated early returning
 steelhead. Historically, wild winter-run steelhead here were dominated 
by December, January and February returns. If you go back to the tribal 
catch data from 1934 to 1959, prior to the hatchery programs for the 10 
principal rivers where we’ve got data, from 85 to 98 percent of all the 
steelhead harvested in the tribal fisheries were between January and the
 end of February. Almost no steelhead were caught late. It’s possible 
that there were more later-returning fish than indicated by the tribal 
catch data; maybe the tribes didn’t target them because they weren’t as 
desirable to sell commercially at that later return date. Nevertheless, 
many of the later return steelhead are just as ocean fresh as the early 
return group on entry, and if they had been in large historic numbers 
there is no doubt the tribal fishers would have been fishing for them. 
Today a number of our Washington rivers may be at 50 to 75 percent of 
historic late-returning wild steelhead numbers. They’re actually not in 
that bad shape. But we are now largely missing the early entry winter 
fish. They used to be the dominate return group. They are the steelhead 
best adapted to Washington habitat conditions—and yet the very fish that
 steelhead management has largely eliminated.
 Why are they best adapted?
McMillan: Because of their early return each winter.
 We don’t fully understand what made these early-return characteristics 
the most productive and abundant part of the run. But we do know some 
things. Some wild steelhead once spawned earlier than we have come to 
manage for over the past 30 years or more. Wild spawning often began in 
January, dependent on annual winter weather variables, the area of the 
watershed, and hydrological characteristics of their spawning 
destination. Some places they still do in Washington. In many areas, 
spawning was in full swing by February, much more than now, probably 
particularly so in lower-elevation, rain-driven tributary creeks. Still,
 the peak of spawning overall was probably March and April historically.
 But for over 30 years management has denied the presence of wild 
steelhead spawning prior to about March 15th.
Why is this important?
McMillan: Part of the story is suggested in the 
recent Skagit River steelhead study. Acoustic transmitters were inserted
 in 133 wild steelhead over a three-year period and tracked to their 
spawning destinations and back out to sea if they survived. Among the 
findings were that earlier-return steelhead stay in the system longer 
than late-return fish. Very few early return wild steelhead were 
captured to acoustic tag: zero in December, 2 in January, 11 in 
February. The remaining 120 steelhead were tagged from March through 
early May. Average time was nearly 50 days for steelhead tagged in 
February to reach Sauk River spawning destinations. The time diminished 
by month with steelhead tagged in April and May arriving at Sauk 
destinations in about 15 days. In other words, the earlier the entry, 
signficantly longer in-river time was required to reach the spawning 
grounds. There was a similar pattern for steelhead heading for the upper
 Skagit above Rockport. For mid-Skagit steelhead—from about Grandy Creek
 to Rockport—the time from tagging was more compressed into March and 
April. They got to spawning destinations in fewer than 10 days.
How long did the early fish stay in the main river?
McMillan: We don’t know. No December steelhead were 
tagged and only two were in January. But we can probably assume from the
 pattern that it was an even longer duration than for February 
steelhead. In the Sauk River basin there were also gender differences 
regarding spawning-destination arrival. Males tagged in February arrived
 50 days earlier than the females. Other research has indicated the 
importance for males to begin staking out spawning territory at an early
 date to establish male dominance before female arrival. Unfortunately, 
there were no data to track this for February males at spawning 
destinations outside the Sauk.
The longer they are in the Skagit, obviously, the more vulnerable they are.
 McMillan:
McMillan:
 Yes. This long period of river time before spawning makes early return 
steelhead particularly vulnerable to harvest—and to potential loss from 
mortality related to repeated catch-and-release in an intensive sport 
fishery. Another interesting finding is that most of the earlier 
steelhead were bound for the mid-Skagit and Sauk with early arrival time
 apparently particularly important at these two locations. The 
latest-entry steelhead in May were bound for the upper Skagit and Sauk, 
although, with only four tagged fish, the conclusions aren’t definitive.
 The earliest arrival month at spawning locations was for the lower 
mid-Skagit in February. At one time, even earlier spawning may have 
occurred in this area, but we’re largely missing that component of the 
run to build evidence by tagging.
How long do Skagit steelhead typically spend on the redds?
McMillan: That’s another interesting thing—the 
earlier their entry, the longer the time the steelhead spend at their 
spawning destination.  February entry steelhead spend an average of 45 
to 50 days at spawning sites while May entry steelhead average fewer 
than 20 to 30 days. This, again, increases their vulnerability to 
harvest or catch-and-release mortality if those spawning destination 
areas are in active fishery areas.
And after spawning?
McMillan: Post-spawning time to exit the Skagit 
basin to salt water ranged from as little as one day to as many as 255 
days. The average was roughly 15 days. That one 255-day outlier was a 
male. It resided in the Skagit basin from entry to exit for nine months.
 The average length of time from tagging to exit at Whidbey Island was 
about 70 days and male residency in river was about a month longer than 
for females. This is an important finding.  During the three-year study,
 there were 77 females tagged but only 56 males. Female numerical 
dominance varies by steelhead population but is the overall norm. It is 
vital for males to fertilize more than one female—otherwise 
fertilization depends on resident males. This is also necessary to 
maximize genetic diversity within egg batches.
How do these latest findings compare with the historical picture?
McMillan: A big shift appears to be in where they 
spawn. The 1977-1981 Skagit steelhead study found that an average of 75 
percent of wild winter steelhead spawning occurred in the tributary 
creeks of the Skagit basin—80 percent one year. Today it is common to 
have less than 25 percent of spawning occurring in tributary creeks. The
 steelhead that were once critical to fill these diverse small tributary
 habitats were likely early-run steelhead that are now largely missing. 
It is like an eight-cylinder automobile trying to run on only two to 
three cylinders. These small rain-driven tributaries were once probably 
the safest destinations to lay eggs to maximize survival to emergence 
time. But being rain-driven, some of the creeks go dry or nearly dry by 
mid-June to early July. Early entry and spawning is a probable advantage
 in order to get the emergent fry out of the gravel soon enough to 
migrate downstream to the main stem Skagit for primary rearing before 
the creeks go dry, or before habitat is greatly diminished in available 
summer flow.
So they’re like summer steelhead in that they have their niche, 
and fish coming later might not be able to reach and populate those 
marginal habitats.
McMillan: The other thing that is important to know 
about winter steelhead is that early returns can be dominated by males 
and that males almost invariably arrive on the spawning grounds earlier 
than the females they will spawn with; another interesting finding has 
been that in the latest portion of the steelhead spawning period there 
can be very few remaining male steelhead as was found on the Quillayute 
basin of the Olympic Peninsula as found in John’s published research 
work there [Bill’s son, fisheries biologist John McMillan]. It is 
thought that male steelhead may have virtually spawned themselves to 
depletion by the time of the latest arriving females. It subsequently 
leaves resident males to fill the void for fertilizing the eggs of late 
return female steelhead. Early arrival on the spawning grounds is 
important for males in order to maximize the number of females each male
 can mate with. They’ve got to be there early. By eliminating all those 
early males, as has occurred since the earlier historical period prior 
to large returns of hatchery steelhead and subsequent management to 
harvest hatchery steelhead, it has diminished wild steelhead 
productivity through elimination of early run-timing in general, and may
 particularly have eliminated the best spawning contribution by wild 
male steelhead that is now divided between hatchery and wild females and
 further diminished by loss of earliest entry time to the spawning 
ground destinations.
How have we altered this dynamic?
 McMillan:
McMillan:
 Harvest, primarily, but not only harvest. We also have introduced 
interaction with hatchery fish to the early spawning of wild fish, 
particularly with males. We’ve continually assessed steelhead spawning 
times by female maturation. By the time the females dig the redds with 
eggs at mature development, the males have often been at full gonad 
development and ready to go much earlier than the females. As 
demonstrated in the Skagit steelhead study—and in other research—male 
steelhead can be on the spawning grounds for a long time. I suspect 
where we are getting a lot of damaging hatchery interaction is with wild
 males spawning with hatchery females that average earlier egg 
maturation and spawning than wild females. The males are wasting 
themselves before the wild females are around. With the numbers of wild 
males greatly reduced already, the big primary males in particular 
probably are likely depleting themselves of sperm before it counts—when 
more wild females are available at later dates. This creates a two-fold 
depletion in steelhead productivity in the wild: 1) spawning with 
hatchery females results in greatly reduced survival to adulthood of the
 resulting hatchery/wild progeny; and 2) many wild males may be depleted
 before many wild females are ready to mate and lay eggs resulting in 
even lower numbers of males in wild steelhead populations that are 
already typically top-heavy with females and are dependent on every male
 spawning multiple times to maximize the productivity of the wild 
population. This is no longer occurring. The other thing is that we 
haven’t managed for resident rainbows, which John’s work is showing to 
be very important to spawning success and productivity of the overall 
mixed wild steelhead-rainbow population. Our rivers no longer have many 
resident males of optimal spawning size because we have insufficient 
angling regulations to protect them. In most rivers, resident and 
estuarine fish of 12 to 20 inches—half-pounder saltwater life 
histories—are open to harvest. These fish are typically male. They spawn
 in wild steelhead populations otherwise low on adult males. This has 
been well recognized on Russia’s Kamchatka Peninsula for many years, 
dating back to the late 1960s and noted in California steelhead studies 
as early as the 1930s and 1940s. Yet management in most of Washington 
has yet to develop adequate protection of these important alternative 
male life histories that are so important to overall steelhead 
productivity.
Those resident males are contributing to the gene pool and 
population viability by spawning with the larger fish that have returned
 from the ocean.
McMillan: Yup, and they are particularly important 
as found in John’s work for being there for the late-spawning wild 
females. As he found in his work on the Olympic Peninsula, on the 
Quillayute system, by May through July, the only fish left to spawn with
 the female steelhead are resident males. They are a vital part of the 
mix. We have yet to provide protection for them in Washington. Larger 
sized male rainbow trout with the largest gonads and spawning capacity 
have in some instances been almost entirely wiped out. We’ve perpetually
 allowed harvest on them. Same thing for jack steelhead, predominately 
male, that typically come back between 15 and 20 inches long. I can 
remember when we had such fish return in the Washougal—they just 
virtually disappeared back in 1980s. Kurt Beardslee, and others of Wild 
Fish Conservancy, in snorkel survey work in the Tolt River, found that 
one of the most interesting factors in watching the recovery of the wild
 Tolt summer steelhead run has been the reappearance of fish that have 
estuarine life histories or are residents. These fish were largely 
absent when they started doing the snorkel surveys in the late 1980s and
 early 1990s, but they now commonly observe fish of 14 to 19 inches. 
Kurt would like to find funding to further study how prevalent these 
resident or estuarine life histories once were in Puget Sound rivers 
prior to their depletion through harvest, and what part they may be 
playing in steelhead recovery on the Tolt.
Based on your research, Bill, please place the fate of steelhead 
running the Skagit River in perspective—how many steelhead do you think 
were here historically?
McMillan: The earliest commercial fishing records 
began when Washington became a state in 1889. Steelhead catch in those 
records for Puget Sound—separated out from salmon—don’t occur until 
about 1892. For some of the rivers, including the Skagit, there is no 
steelhead data until 1895. It happens that 1895 was the commercial 
steelhead peak in Washington. Soon after there was a steep and sustained
 decline in the catch. Steelhead were no longer recorded in the 
commercial catch from about 1930 onward. There may have been a period of
 wild steelhead recovery suggested by sport-catch data that began in 
1948 to sometime in the early 1960s. But since the late 1960s, runs here
 in Puget Sound have been on a steady and relatively continuous decline 
heading toward extinction. It’s also very clear from early commercial 
records that they began fishing commercially for steelhead by 
mid-November in the Skagit and elsewhere in Puget Sound. Steelhead 
management over the past 30 years has denied the historic recognition of
 these vitally important early wild steelhead.
The freshwater homes of the steelhead were also under assault from logging upriver and clearing of log jams downriver.
McMillan: Yup, although a lot of the habitat 
destruction—some of the worst—was actually inflicted before 1895. Fifty 
to 70 percent of the lower Skagit basin from Mount Vernon to the 
coastline was historically water. The incredibly rich floodplain and 
tidelands…. Ponds, tidal marsh, beaver dams and beaver ponds—one vast 
waterscape. Now it’s 10 percent water. Rearing areas, we lost vast 
amounts of rearing areas. Prior to 1877 there were two river-spanning 
log jams between the present I-5 bridge and the Highway 9 bridge. One of
 those jams was a mile long; the other a half-mile long. They had been 
in the river for so many years that the larger of the two jams had a 
100-year-old forest growing on top of it! To open Euro-American 
settlement of the upper Skagit basin, they had to get those jams out. 
Before that, the only way people got upriver was to portage canoes over 
these long jams to get to the upper basin. They frequently hired tribal 
people. In 1877, some volunteers in the Mount Vernon area began to 
whittle away at those jams. Over a period of about two years, with only 
half a dozen men continually working away, they eventually eliminated—or
 sufficiently notched—those jams. This created the ability for 
steamboats to travel upstream with supplies for settlers, and allow 
commercial activities back and forth. A government-operated snag boat 
continued removing large wood out of the Skagit channel to further 
accommodate steamboat travel. By the time we get to 1895—the year of 
peak steelhead harvest—a very high percentage of former large wood in 
the Skagit between the mouth and Marblemount had been removed that once 
provided important fish habitat. The original lower river had a mile and
 a half of river-spanning log jams. No predator could get to those fish.
 No human fishermen could get to them. They were totally protected right
 there at the top end of tidewater. It had to have provided a vital 
sanctuary for steelhead and salmon, for both juveniles and adults.
What do you think the run was?
McMillan: The commercial steelhead harvest on the 
Skagit in 1895 was 26,000 steelhead based on an average of about eight 
pounds per steelhead.
Killed?
McMillan: Killed. We also found from early 
record-keeping that during the same year, an equal number of steelhead 
was estimated harvested by the ranchers of the upper Stillaguamish River
 basin. We found other data that clearly indicate this would not have 
been limited  to the Stillaguamish—all the settlers in upper river 
basins would have been equally compelled to harvest fish. The perplexing
 thing to me was how and why so few people took so many fish. Settlers 
in those upper basins was probably limited to maybe a dozen families in 
1895. What would a dozen families do with so much perishable protein? I 
searched and searched the literature and finally came across the most 
illuminating passage. It came from what is today called Hanson Creek at 
the east end of Sedro-Woolley on the Skagit River. There’s been a 
habitat recovery project ongoing there in recent years; it’s where an 
old mental hospital used to stand. They had a garden that patients 
worked to grow their own food. It was called Benson Creek in the 1800s. 
Somewhere along the line it got shifted to Hanson Creek. Anyway, in 
1906, An Illustrated History of Skagit and Snohomish Counties was 
published with interviews of some 1,200 early settlers. One of the 
interviews was particularly revealing. An early pioneer of Benson Creek 
said that fish appeared over a protracted spawning period. When the fish
 came into the creek, each salmon species by its season, they were so 
numerous that children, bears, wolves, and farm dogs were chasing them 
up and downstream. Everyone had a gay old time—critter and human, all 
kind of independent from each other, not paying much attention to each 
other, all focused on chasing the fish. It sounded like great fun. Each 
family in the area had its wagon and team and each was easily filled 
with 400 fish in about two hours of pitchforking or spearing the fish 
out of the creek. They used these hauls to fertilize their gardens and 
orchards and to feed livestock—mostly hogs. This was happening on all 
the Skagit creeks. This explains how a relatively small number of 
settlers could harvest as many steelhead as the commercial fishery. 
During the fall months they used salmon to fertilize and during the 
spring months they used steelhead. You have to remember that when they 
removed the old-growth forest, the soil left was highly acidic and 
unproductive for agriculture. They didn’t have any money or access to 
commercial fertilizer. For effective agriculture, the way you brought 
the land back to productivity was to add fish. Your first priority would
 have been to pick a piece of property that had a creek on it to provide
 your drinking and cooking water, but the secondary benefit was to 
provide abundant fish fertilizer which would grow food for you and to 
feed your animals.
How many wild steelhead return to the Skagit River today?
 McMillan:
McMillan:
 Well, in 2009 it was no more than 2,500—at most. That’s the official 
estimate. Historically, using catch records to reconstruct the likely 
strength of the run, we know that 26,000 steelhead were netted in the 
1895 Skagit commercial fishery. Adding the estimate of equal steelhead 
numbers used by settlers, then that’s a harvest of 52,000. Using a basic
 rule of thumb of harvest, if you’re not diminishing a resource you need
 a 50 percent escapement—so potentially the Skagit steelhead run could 
have been 104,000 as my initial estimate back in 2006. However, there 
are differing mathematical approaches for better refining such 
estimates. One of these is called a Bayesian analysis into which one can
 enter ranges of uncertainties in the data. Computers can now run these 
data over and over again that can include not only the catch data in 
pounds and probable range of steelhead weights. But it also can factor 
in variables such as what the escapement range compared to harvest range
 might have been, based on the probability of whether a specific river’s
 settlement was more heavily weighted toward industrial or agricultural 
uses, as well as the pace of such development. The resulting range is 
that the size steelhead run would fall within all these given 
considerations. Nick Gayeski, Pat Trotter and I teamed to put our 
strengths together to develop a Puget Sound historic steelhead number 
estimate as well as those for four individual river basins that had 
well-defined catch data: Skagit, Nooksack, Stillaguamish and Snohomish. 
Nick is the mathematician, I was the primary historian, and Pat the 
primary editor with our resulting paper, Gayeski et al. 2011, 
“Historical abundance of Puget Sound steelhead, Oncorhynchus mykiss, 
estimated from catch record data.” It was published in the Canadian 
Journal of Fisheries and Aquatic Science. The Bayesian analysis resulted
 in a Skagit River steelhead run size in 1895 ranging from 70,000 to 
149,000 with a mean of 105,600 steelhead—almost exactly our original 
104,000 estimate. Using different approaches, we came to the same 
number. The past 10 years the Skagit run has averaged about 5,000 
steelhead— four to five percent of the historic run size in 1895.
This is pre-dam?
McMillan: This is pre-dam. Dams weren’t put in on 
the Skagit until about 1922. That was when the Gorge dam blocked the 
upper river. The Baker dam was built on the Baker River in 1925.
Can it ever be brought back to any semblance of what it was?
McMillan: I think we can bring back to what we had in the 1950s.
Give us the Bill McMillan six-point program on how to bring back the Skagit.
McMillan: There can be no semblance of recovery 
until we bring back early-return steelhead. We’ve got management all 
wrong. We’re focusing harvest on early-return steelhead because we have 
to, in order to minimize hatchery steelhead interacting with wild 
steelhead.
So how do you have hatchery steelhead at all—how can you possibly accommodate hatchery steelhead into a Skagit restoration?
McMillan: At this point hatchery fish make wild 
recovery impossible. If you try to harvest all the hatchery fish to 
prevent swamping the wild population on the spawning grounds, you’re 
going to harvest the wild population right along with them and keep us 
perpetually where we are—with remnant, severely depressed returns of 
early winter fish. Until we can get that early-return life history back,
 there’s no potential to ever recover our steelhead populations—not in 
the Skagit, not throughout Puget Sound, not throughout western 
Washington. There should be far more steelhead than there are on the 
Queets River, for instance. There’s perfectly good evidence that the 
Queets had a particularly large steelhead population on the Northwest 
Coast. It’s more difficult to find accurate, long-term harvest records 
for other Olympic Peninsula streams, but there are such records for the 
Queets, including a particularly large harvest of steelhead in 1923 as 
indicated in cannery operation there at the time. The Queets was also 
once noted for very early return steelhead as found in the 1934-1959 
tribal-catch data as well as the 1948-1959 sport-catch data. Over 95 
percent of the Queets tribal catch was composed of December to February 
wild steelhead. All of this was long before the hatchery program began 
on the Queets in about 1980. We have to be able to recover those 
early-return wild steelhead. At this point, the strategy of providing 
protection for the late-return fish is not paying off. We’re within 
shooting distance of recovery back to 1950 levels in the Skagit basin if
 the hatchery steelhead releases cease. In the case of the Queets, where
 much of the habitat remains as it was in the 19th century in Olympic 
National Park, achieving wild steelhead run sizes back to those of the 
1930s and ’40s may be achievable—again, by stopping hatchery plants.
In your judgment, is there enough wild seed stock to get the restoration going, or are they extinct?
McMillan: We haven’t completely eliminated them. 
They’re still there. I’ve got the modern tribal fishing records. Some 
wild steelhead are still caught in December in the Skagit basin and more
 in January and February. This was similarly the case for sport catch 
data when wild harvest still occurred in the Skagit basin until about 
2002. The basic recovery building blocks remain.
So how do we do it—how do we bring back the icon of the Northwest?
 McMillan:
McMillan:
 Number one, eliminate hatchery steelhead plants. If there’s any 
legitimate time and place to target wild steelhead harvest by tribal 
fishers, it’s the late run that is now the strongest wild return period 
and far closer to historic numbers than early return wild steelhead. 
Again, we’ve got it all ass-backwards by targeting the tribal fishery on
 the early steelhead that are now the weakest return component of the 
run. We should have catch-and-release fisheries for sportsman early in 
the season to give those fish maximum protection on the spawning run and
 then get our lines out of the water where the fish are getting close to
 their spawning destinations. The lower river may still provide some 
opportunity for a later catch-and-release sport fishery if it is 
tailored in a way to avoid concentrations of steelhead holding near 
their spawning destinations. Many of the late-return steelhead are 
migrating quickly through the lower river toward upper destinations as 
found in the Skagit acoustic tagging. Meantime, we have to somehow 
provide the treaty rights of tribal people on the lower river to harvest
 some proportion of those fresh fish coming through in the late run.  
The late run is the only remaining component that can possibly provide 
some limited harvest opportunity in a management plan driven by wild 
recovery. Then, as the recovery progresses and the runs grow in 
strength, expand out with an eventual goal of having relatively even 
distribution of fishing time over the full length of the run, with no 
concentrated harvest of any particular segment of the run. A plan for 
eventual low to moderate tribal harvest throughout the return period is 
the only way to sustain a wild steelhead future that can viably include 
harvest.
Give us the highlights of your big study of the Skagit.
McMillan: My assigned task in the Skagit study was 
to compare historic to present wild steelhead trends of other Pacific 
Coast rivers in Oregon, Washington, and southern British Columbia to 
that of the Skagit. I set out to see if there was or was not a pattern 
of hatchery impacts in these comparisons. It’s most interesting to 
compare the long-term trend of Skagit wild steelhead diminishment as an 
apparent response to fishery management that became dominated by a 
continual increase in hatchery steelhead smolt releases to other rivers.
 Many of these rivers have had a similar management focus. My job was to
 compare the Skagit to those few rivers on the coast where hatchery 
steelhead programs were never implemented or where hatchery programs 
have ceased. Record-keeping of the steelhead sport fishery began in 1948
 in Washington when anglers had to begin recording their catches on 
punch-cards for subsequent annual catch tabulation by stream. In nearly 
the same period of time on the North Fork Umpqua River in Oregon—where 
winter-run steelhead have had no long-term winter steelhead hatchery 
program—the counts of  steelhead past Winchester dam since 1946 reveal 
that while periodic upward and downward returns have occurred like a 
roller-coaster over time, the wild steelhead population has remained 
virtually stable for over 65 years with no declining trend. [motions 
with hands]
Ups and downs, ups and downs—pretty stable in the long run.
McMillan: No deep valleys. You see cycles of 
abundance reflected in normal changing freshwater and ocean conditions. 
Those same conditions affected runs returning to the Skagit, except 
abundance over time goes continually downward as shown by punch-card 
catch data and tribal catch data since the latter 1960s. [extended hand 
points downward]
You’ve still got the cyclical peaks and valleys, but overall it’s like an escalator going down.
McMillan: Furthermore, the North Umpqua has long 
provided wild steelhead harvest opportunity. It’s only within the last 
three years that many anglers have insisted on increased emphasis of 
catch-and-release with considerably reduced harvest. However, in the 
case of the North Umpqua it is apparent that it has sustained remarkably
 even, but moderate, harvest opportunity without resulting in wild 
diminishment.  This is likely due to its comparative historical absence 
of hatchery winter-run steelhead. The North Umpqua has a consistent wild
 return past Winchester dam of 6,000 to 10,000 wild winter-run 
steelhead. It’s totally sustainable even with an annual harvest of 1,000
 to 2,000 fish on average all the way along. [follows printed graph with
 finger] That’s the ideal target for a fishery, particularly if harvest 
is a necessary part of the management, as is the case in Puget Sound due
 to tribal treaty rights agreed to in 1855.
That’s the ideal management situation. You have a stable wild 
resource and if some want to harvest a small portion, they can. They 
have that opportunity. The resource isn’t going to suffer.
McMillan: It shows what a healthy river is. One can 
certainly build a case that steelhead don’t really need 
catch-and-release regulations on the North Umpqua, unless the goal of 
“maximum sustained recreation” is the driver built on the premise that 
catch-and-release mortality remains low enough to be less than outright 
harvest. My basic argument is that in the case of the Skagit and the 
other streams in the Boldt Case area of Washington, we don’t have that 
option of narrowing management here to “maximum sustained recreation.” 
The tribes have every right to expect their 1855 peace agreement that 
included the right to harvest fish in a manner that does not compromise 
the ability for steelhead and salmon to healthily sustain themselves. 
The management route to sustainably providing that is demonstrated by 
the North Umpqua—no hatchery plants and moderate harvest on winter 
steelhead that does not exceed about 20 to 25 percent of the run size. 
Moderation is the key to sustainability and which, of course, was the 
original tribal practice.
If somebody’s going to harvest them—it’s going to be the tribes.
McMillan: Yup, we’ve got to provide some sort of 
carrot to get the tribes on the bandwagon for recovery of wild fish. We 
have to be able to prove that wild fish can provide modest, steady 
harvest. But you cannot expect pie in the sky. Current management is 
based on expectations of mixed hatchery-wild return harvests of the 
1960s, which isn’t going to happen. And which can’t ever again happen if
 steelhead are to be sustainable—and today they are not sustainable as 
managed in the Skagit basin and the rest of Puget Sound.
Yeah, it’s kind of like saying we should go back to the 1970s for
 our harvest of timber or back to the Westport days of big salmon 
limits. That’s not going to happen.
McMillan: My theory is the reason that we can never 
go back is that we have developed predator populations that specialize 
in eating the hatchery smolts that go out. It took predators about a 
decade to build breeding colonies around the golden opportunity for 
preying on massive numbers of hatchery fish flooding the estuaries at 
once. Hatchery smolts don’t have a clue of how to avoid predators in 
their year of hatchery pond rearing. Avian predators, seals, dogfish, 
sea lions and everything else—a feeding bonanza like they’d never 
experienced before. It provided the easiest way to make a living they 
ever saw. And once those predator levels built up, we can never go back 
to what the productivity level was like in the 1960s. And wild fish have
 to outmigrate as smolts through this same increased horde of predators 
with increased losses. Our reliance on hatcheries has created this whole
 disruption of the natural ecosystem. It’s completely out of whack. If 
we get rid of the hatchery fish, it will not take that many generations 
to get the wild fish back—if we provide that early-return component the 
opportunity to exploit what appear to be their advantages. In looking at
 the tribal harvest data, the Skagit still has enough early steelhead to
 build recovery on that return in December, January and February. Even 
my own fishing data indicates that in January is when one can well 
expect to begin encountering wild fish in predictable numbers. The 
tribal harvest data indicated that considerable numbers of January 
steelhead are caught. This is what Skagit recovery has to build on.
I think they can come back. I do.
McMillan: The Skagit basin is one of the more 
hopeful places in Washington due to quite extensive habitat for 
steelhead remaining and the relatively low human population in Skagit 
County. Nevertheless, it’s discouraging to look at places like Finney 
Creek in the lower valley. The forest above looks like it was detonated.
 The stream channel is now so broad in width that in places it’s the 
width of the Sauk River. It may take a century for its degraded channel 
to recover if we were to once make the decision to effectively alter 
forest practices to allow channel recovery to occur in that time. But 
it’s going to be a long process. It’s not going to be as productive as 
it historically was for a long time. But wild steelhead, in the absence 
of hatchery fish, will make better use of what remains in Finney Creek 
and other degraded creeks than they have in the past.
Yet there are huge areas of intact habitat on the Sauk, the Suiattle, the Cascade and all the other upper tributary streams.
McMillan: Yes, indeed. One of the big surprises in 
the recent Skagit study is that most of the hatchery interaction is 
taking place in all these little tributaries throughout the basin—that 
is where the hatchery fish are predominantly going to interact with the 
wild fish. And it is showing up in the genetics. There were the 
1977-1981 studies done on the Skagit that tie in, one a genetic study 
and one a spawning study. The spawning study indicated that at that 
time—when they were doing spawning surveys in 1978, 1979 and 1980—from 
65 to 80 percent of all Skagit River steelhead spawned in the small 
tributaries. Now it’s just the reverse. Most spawn in the main stems. 
This suggests to me that this shift is another reason why we are now 
missing early steelhead. The early steelhead must have historically 
spawned early in these tributaries. But since we’ve reduced their 
numbers these small streams are no longer as productive. It’s also where
 the genetics tell us that the hatchery and wild interactions have taken
 place. These small streams are vital for spawning. But they tend to 
diminish in the summer. Thereafter the Skagit itself provides vast areas
 of rearing space for creek origin juveniles. As the streams dried up, 
the juveniles had to migrate out into the Skagit. In 1982, the 
researchers couldn’t figure out how it was possible for the small 
tributaries to sustain that level of continued returns of numbers of 
adult fish, given the small areas for rearing. They theorized that the 
main stem Skagit provided the rearing while the tributaries supplied the
 spawning habitat, but even at that time the main Skagit was considered 
to be greatly underutilized rearing steelhead. This is where I base my 
estimate that the wild Skagit steelhead future has much room for 
recovery success.
How about the dam fluctuations—do you think that has a influence on the river for spawning?
McMillan: Not so much on steelhead spawning, but the
 fluctuations do greatly impact the chum and pink salmon below the entry
 of the Baker River due to operation of the Baker dams. The flows are 
daily turned on and off into the Skagit with common dewatering of salmon
 redds downstream—so the steelhead are affected in the diminishment of 
salmon that provide nutrients. Young steelhead are ultimately dependent 
on chum and pinks, primarily for nutrients to sustain them through the 
winter. After juvenile steelhead migrations out of the Skagit 
tributaries, what are they going to feed on? The river doesn’t have the 
aquatic insect populations of, say, Oregon’s Deschutes. What it used to 
have, historically, was tons and tons of pink and chum salmon dying and 
providing egg and carcass nutrients. So the dam fluctuations are 
damaging in that way. Remember the Baker River salmon kill back in 
2000-2001, when we got front-page coverage in a number of major 
newspapers on both coasts?
Has this situation improved?
McMillan: At the time, Puget Sound Energy was 
fighting their federal relicensing agreement, which they had to have in 
place by 2008. They had been resisting doing anything about modifying or
 providing minimum flows to the Skagit. They were saying that their only
 obligation was to the Baker River. What they were providing the Baker 
River was trucking the adult sockeye and chinook upstream of the dams 
where there was still productive habitat. Trucking of steelhead, 
however, was not consistently done. They claimed that dewatering the 
lower Baker was doing no harm. That’s where they continued to make their
 stand until 2000-2001 when the salmon kill hit the front page of The 
New York Times and the third page in the Wall Street Journal. Their 
stocks took a big hit. That was a big wakeup call and subsequently 
became more negotiable on flow agreements. The agreements on minimum 
flows coming out of the Baker are predicated on their finishing 
installation of two more generators at the powerhouse which will include
 an ability to provide more gradual up and down ramping rates as well as
 not to go below a minimum flow standard. Before they had no minimum 
flow standards. The relicensing agreement indicates that the Baker is 
not to go below about 1,200 cfs discharge into the Skagit sometime in 
2013. Construction presently continues as the deadline fast approaches 
to get those two generators operational and minimum flows met. That will
 help, particularly if they operate their generators the same way that 
Seattle City Light does on the upper Skagit. As power companies go, 
Seattle City Light is the best case example of any dam managers that I 
know for making progressive changes in the way they operate dams for 
fish. Chinook and chum and pink salmon have all dramatically benefited 
between Rockport and Newhalem in the area of primary Seattle dam 
influence. While ESA-listed chinook salmon have stablized in the upper 
Skagit, influenced by dam operations, everywhere else in the Skagit 
basin they continue to decline at about six percent per decade. In fact,
 at the time when Dave Pflug and Ed Conner [Seattle City Light 
biologists] had their upper Skagit paper published in the mid 2000s, 
chinook were actually increasing slightly in that section of river. Both
 pink and chum salmon have dramatically increased in that section. Prior
 to the 1970s, Seattle City Light was still doing some of the same 
things as Puget Sound Energy was on the Baker—dewatering, leaving flows 
off all weekends, and generally making fish production ineffective.
How are steelhead doing on the Skagit above Sauk?
McMillan: Until recent years, steelhead had not 
responded as well as salmon. But, then again, steelhead were not as 
immediately affected by the changes in how flows are operated on the 
upper Skagit. Their redds are made in the spring, when flows remain 
predictably high with snow run-off throughout the summer when fry 
emergence occurs. The biologists do chinook spawning surveys there by 
jet boat in August and September. They mark each of the redds and they 
take a GPS reading of where each of those redds is. Those closest to the
 bank are the ones that they are particularly concerned about—the 
location of the redds sets the limit of how low the flow is allowed to 
get on dam release. It’s not just an arbitrary measure. It’s their 
operational design not to dewater more than something like about two 
percent of those chinook redds. Essentially, it’s probably even better 
than natural conditions, and chinook have responded pretty well. Their 
numbers have stabilized. And pinks and chum have really benefited. One 
of the reasons why steelhead have not demonstrated marked increases in 
numbers is that they spawn in spring with very little likelihood of 
dewatering on through to July and even well into August. In recent 
years, steelhead numbers finally have been increasing in the upper 
Skagit basin. In fact, 2013 is looking to be an especially high count 
and this gradually increasing trend in steelhead redd counts has been 
occurring since about 2004 or so. The reasons are not yet clearly 
understood. The large floods in 2003 and 2006 had great impacts on the 
Sauk basin. I theorize that in part the impact of those floods on the 
spawning grounds, which became covered with two to three feet of 
sediment in many areas, resulted in larger than normal numbers of wild 
steelhead straying from the Sauk into the upper Skagit, which remained 
free of the flood effects. I suggest this due to knowing the response by
 Toutle River steelhead after Mount St. Helens erupted in 1980, which 
resulted in much steelhead straying for the first several years due to 
all the sediment in the Toutle basin. Perhaps that added straying by 
wild Sauk steelhead helped to jumpstart productivity in the uppermost 
Skagit main stem. However, this does not explain the still- increasing 
redd counts in the upper Skagit with the Sauk basin now largely clear of
 those sediment deposits that have since washed downstream and out of 
the stream channels. Another contributive explanation may be several 
combined factors. Hatchery steelhead plants were cut by more than half 
in the Skagit basin in 2008; this may help to explain the most recent 
upward bump in the upper Skagit from 2010 to now. Plants of steelhead 
smolts were also eliminated from Barnaby Slough in the upper Skagit. And
 in 2002 catch and release of wild steelhead was finally made mandatory 
throughout the year in the Skagit basin. Harvest of wild steelhead in 
the already depleted early return time period of December to February 
had been for some reason previously allowed in the sport fishery. 
Earlier initiation of spawning has been occurring in the upper 
Skagit—this may be an indicator of some positive benefits of 
implementing catch and release of those early wild fish. Late is better 
than never.
And they are not so much main-stem spawners.
McMillan: It’s a mix of both main-stem and tributary
 spawning in the upper Skagit. It is becoming increasingly clear that 
our steelhead problems in the Skagit may be more hatchery driven than 
for any other single reason.
But the hatchery bureaucracy is going to be tough to dismantle. 
The public—even anglers who should know better and have watched the runs
 disappear—think that more smolts planted results in more steelhead 
coming back.
McMillan: One of the positive development is that 
the tribal fishery managers and Seattle City Light biologists now 
acknowledge this reverse trend between hatchery smolt releases and 
steelhead returns. The more smolts that are planted the fewer 
steelhead—both hatchery and wild—come back. In the early to mid-1990s, 
Seattle City Light, as part of their dam relicensing and mitigation, 
agreed to provide more money for hatchery steelhead. So hatchery smolt 
releases increased dramatically from an average of about 225,000 to more
 than 500,000 annually.
But fewer adults returned….
McMillan: At a presentation about the steelhead 
hatchery program on the Skagit given by the Hatchery Scientific Review 
Group [independent team of biologist working on hatchery reform policies
 for Puget Sound and coastal Washington], I questioned the HSRG people 
about how they could scientifically justify their approval of the 
proposed Grandy Creek hatchery rearing pond plans in 2006—based on the 
evidence I and others had provided in the Grandy Creek hatchery pond 
review process, demonstrating that the more hatchery smolts planted, the
 fewer the returning adults. The HSRG folks weren’t very happy about my 
bringing this to their attention. Nevertheless, Seattle City Light and 
the Skagit tribes decided this wasn’t making any sense to continue 
escalating hatchery steelhead smolt plants. The Washington Department of
 Fish and Wildlife didn’t agree. They wanted to keep the mitigation 
money flowing for the hatchery program. But it was two against one for 
Skagit River management decisions. The tribes and Seattle City Light 
stayed firm. Subsequently, in 2008, they cut the hatchery plants by more
 than half. The hatchery steelhead are now back to around 220,000 smolts
 annually.
Do you think this will make a difference?
McMillan: I am hoping that we will see a slight 
increase in wild spawners over time, although I don’t expect any 
dramatic increases until we completely eliminate the hatchery steelhead 
problem in the Skagit basin. And it may yet happen.
Wow. This has been a real eye-opener, Bill. It’s refreshing to 
hear someone finally talk about practical solutions to saving wild 
steelhead. Maybe the old river has a future after all.
-----------------------------
The link to the above interview on the WSC site:
 
http://wildsteelheadcoalition.org/2013/12/wild-steelhead-the-lure-and-lore-of-a-pacific-northwest-icon/